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Blackout
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PostSubject: Ban List Discussion   Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:34 pm

This thread is on ban list speculation.

I will post ban list updates when they are given.

What do you think is going to be on the banlist or should be on the list?

Rumored:
Forbidden:
• Trishula, Dragon of the Ice Barrier
• Glow-Up Bulb
• Spore
• Trap Dustshoot

Limited:
• T.G. Striker
• The Agent of Mystery - Earth

Semi-Limited:
• Marshmallon
• Lumina, Lightsworn Summoner
• Emergency Teleport
• Shien's Smoke Signal
• Level Limit - Area B
• Torrential Tribute
• Ultimate Offering
• Reborn Tengu

Unlimited:
• Call of the Haunted

http://shriek.twoday.net/topics/Banned+Lists/

Confirmed




Last edited by Blackout on Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:13 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Mugen Daas
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PostSubject: Re: Ban List Discussion   Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:03 pm

Having mulled over the meta and how it's developing since ORCS was released I'm inclined to think the Ban list may look like this:

Banned:

Foolish Burial - Hits Inzektors, Wind-up's and Plants, just a very good card in general.

Mind Control - Simply too good.

Sangan - Common consensus is that he needs to go.

Limited:

Agent - Venus - Instant Trish, Insect imitation for Dragonfly etc this card has always been good, but with the XYZ mechanic it is now broken.

Inzector Hornet - Konami never hit the deck - only the engine, this makes the engine tick - so it's the most likely of the three inzektors to be hit - if not Hornet, then it'll be dragonfly.

Royal Oppression - Personal choice, the sensible player will conserve MST's/side Dust.

Wind-Up Rat - Loop Hit.

Leviair, The Sea Dragon - The Banished zone/RFP/RFG should be banished, not a second graveyard for people to abuse.

Semi-Limited:

Book of Moon - Don't want this to happen, book is far too versatile. But with a reprint in TU07 it is possible, and would effectively counter the meta - one way or another we are heading into a control format.

Master Hyperion - Far too effective as a boss, with prio around he needs to be hit, very few summoning restrictions.

Wind-Up Factory - Blackwing Whirlwind is @ 1 so why should this be left untouched? They operate on the same mechanic, and Blackwing Whirlwind has more restrictions.

Unlimited:

Summoner Monk - Few ran it @2, in a format of 3 Veilers + 3 Fiendish Chain it's fine @3.

Necro Gardna - Is there any reason to keep him @2?

Not sure about Rescue Rabbit and Tour Guide of the Underworld - I can see the validity of hitting both to 1, but being honest since when has Konami ever done what's best for the game. Ideally both would go to 1, but more than likely Rabbit will go to 2, and TGU will get off scott-free.

Anyways those are just my thoughts, I haven't touched Darkworld simply because they are not that good irl - yes they can Top 32 at YCS's but hardly any will ever get to Top16/8 just because their game mechanic struggles if there is no way to discard, and it struggles even more when it cannot use the graveyard (ie) Dimensional Fissure - one of the most commonly sided cards in the current format - and that's not likely to change with Inzektors capable of abusing the wording of Fissure and game mechanics when equipped to each other, and tbh Rabbit doesn't need the grave either.

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Blackout
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PostSubject: Re: Ban List Discussion   Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:12 pm

Wow you guy alot of hits.

Ima put mine up now and comment later

Ban
Trap Dustshoot
Maxx C
TGU
Hunter
Zenmaighty
BLS

Limit
Rabbit
Hyperion

Needs to comeback
Book to 2
Oppression 1 or 2

I think this would really help with some problems.

Also, I have heard rumors at locals that Goyo is goin back to 1 and Dark Armed Dragon is going back to 2.

Thoughts on that if true Question
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PostSubject: Re: Ban List Discussion   Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:53 pm

Also, I have heard rumors at locals that Goyo is goin back to 1 and Dark Armed Dragon is going back to 2.

Thoughts on that if true

If that is true im gonna kill myself i mean espetialy goyo i HATE that card!!!!!!!!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Ban List Discussion   Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:52 pm

Okay, lets get this straight, TOUR GUIDE WILL NEVER BE HIT. And neither will Rabbitz. And possibly not even windups. The banlist is based off of the OCG, and neither of those 2 decks are doing anything ATM, because they run on TCG exclusives. Rabbit is used in verz, but thats just about it. 2ndly, certain cards on the banlist are NOT coming down, specifically Goyo & Book of Moon. They both are extremely splashable cards, and time and time again konami has stated its hatred for commonly used cards.
What do i suspect will be banned in March? 1 Card, and thats Trap Dustshoot. It is extremely overpowered, allowing a glimpse into the opponent's hand and bouncing their best monster. It is a potent threat, and wins so many games based on drawing it turn 1.

What do I suspect will be limited?
-Either Venus/Hyperion. It won worlds, and they are still a dominant force in the OCG meta.
-Spirit Reaper. It has had its time to shine at 3, and its discard effect is a bit too much in today's game.
-Inzektor Hornet. Easy enough to ditch as is.
-Wind-Up Factory. They just gotta hit one card to make it look like they care, but they won't crush the Sales of ORCS by hurting WU more.


What do i Suspect will be Semi-Limited?
-Dark Armed Dragon. It is a powerful card, yet a terrible topdeck in a lot of situations. Also, DAD has not played much of a role in the meta ATM.
-Legendary Six Samurai Shi En. It is a good card, yes. but beast is a lot better, and giving sams 1 more of him might allow them to take a step back into the meta.
-Thunder King Raioh. It is too splashable in too much.
-Marshmellon. Replace reapers.
-One Day of Peace. It is simply an FTK oriented card. It does nothing to improve ANY common deck in the game atm, and frankly, it simply should not exist.
-Snoww, Mage(?) of Dark World. DW needs to be toned down a notch.
-Inzektor Dragonfly. We do not want to kill the deck, just limit its consistancy.
-Foolish Burial. This is a bit iffy, but it will provide for more decks to rise to the top that
require graveyard setup.
-Advanced Ritual Art. Its time for this to leave the land of the limited.

Gone from the list?
-Ojama Trio. Makes chain burn inconsistant if ran in 3's.
-Magic Cylinders. Does nothing at 2, does not need to remain on the list.
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PostSubject: Re: Ban List Discussion   Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:09 am

I hope Konami has enough since to try something different this banlist and hit cards that need to be hit. Rabbit and TGU are unhealthy for the game.

Im just scared Windups and Inzectors are not going to be hit. If they were to get hit I would still think Inzectors would be playable. The deck isn terribly busted like previous decks we seen (Sams and Windups for ex).

I think ARA and Foolish should stay where they are. Your GY is like a second hand now. We got to many creatures and ways to manipulate it imo.

I dont think Factory will get the ban hammer even though I want it to and leaving Zenmaighty and Hunter alone is still asking for trouble.
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PostSubject: Re: Ban List Discussion   Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:12 am

I didn't say i wanted that, its just thats whats probs gonna happen. Banlist is bout OCG, we haz our own problems here. Like when X-Sabers Ruled here, they only hit Rescue Cat cause Fableds were abusing it too much.
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PostSubject: Re: Ban List Discussion   Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:18 am

Ah. Thats retarded. This game suffers because of things like that.
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PostSubject: Re: Ban List Discussion   Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:46 am

Sorry this is a massive essay - and thanks to anyone who reads it. This is mainly to address some points I feel have been forgotten.

Whilst it is true that most TCG only cards don't get hit, i'd like to point you to Allure of Darkness and Charge of the light Brigade -> both were hit when they were still TCG only as they both supported a deck that was destroying the format at that time. I agree that Tour Guide is unlikely to get hit anytime soon, but in the case of Rescue Rabbit I'd argue that Konami will start henpecking the deck much like they have done to plants. To do so Rabbit or the Evolzar XYZ's should be hit - either Laggia to 1 or Rabbit to 2 is the most sensible way to deal with the deck in a conservatory manner.

I personally feel as though the wind-up loop will be hit, I can understand Quincy's veiwpoint that it is much less consistent and in general is not topping in the OCG - but there are variants starting to creep into the top 8 now. The reason for this was not that the wind-up loop is less consistent as many argue, it is due to the playstyle in the OCG. In the TCG we generally like to have a med/high monster count with few traps, and as many spells as possible, in the OCG it is preferable to have a high spell and trap count with few monsters - there are only 2 exceptions to this trend.

The two exceptions are inzektors and lavals, these two deck types are currently topping all over japan. Because of inzektor decks high monster count they tend to keep a large hand around 5/6 cards, with the occasional Dragonfly/Cenntipede hitting the field, more likely in the early game is a thunder king. With smashing being mained @3 in nearly all new variants of wind-ups this isn't the big problem it once was, all that is needed now are 3 lvl 3 monsters - and with most variants playing approximately 20/23 including instant fusion this isn't as hard as you would expect. I can understand that most TCG player's reading this will go "but everyone is running 3 Effect Veiler and 3 Maxx "c" there is no way this loop can go off effectively"...well that's the point in the OCG Increasing G (Maxx "c") doesn't see alot of play due to the whole heavy backrow philosophy, and whilst effect veiler does ruin the strategy it is not a guarantee you will draw it, in fact in the OCG people are consigned to the loop going off, which is why rather than use Maxx "C" a few players have opted for Neko Mane King. (hilarious tech card).

I think Blackout hit the nail on the head as to why Foolish Burial should be banned:

Quote :
I think ARA and Foolish should stay where they are. Your GY is like a second hand now. We got to many creatures and ways to manipulate it imo.

Having had time to think over Quincy's post I do agree Book will never go back to 2 -> no idea why i wrote that - probably high on Caffeine or coco pops.

Looking over Blackout's and Quincy's list I can see the idea's behind them and I really wish Konami took their time to look at these predictions because it would honestly help them to make the game better.

There is only one card that Quincy has mentioned that quite frankly if it goes to 2, I think half the people who started playing when it was unrestricted would just quit the game - and that card is Advanced Ritual Art. This card is like Future Fusion it thins the deck so effectively it deserves to be at 1. It would also single handed catapult Herald of Perfection back into tier 1.5. With 2 you are not just doubling the chance of opening with it, you are allowing a player to send 2 mystical shine balls and 2 cloudian smoke balls to the grave -> thining the deck by four. Not to mention with that graveyard Kristya is now playable. The deck only needs to have Dark Factory of Mass Production and you are essentially locked down, as herald can negate 4 times and you cannot special summon.

I think the last factor in all of this is the most important - money. Konami is a business I see no reason for the to cripple themselves financially, it is for that reason I believe that the they will hit Wind-ups and Inzektors to appear to be doing good for the game - but they will hit Rat and Dragonfly, the common cards. i can see the other reasoning that financially they would try not to hit anything that is in ORCS - yet they did so with Samurai who also had a loop. Loops are bad for the game, Konami should know that by now they seem to have made a few.

Anyway those are just my thoughts, let me know what you think and your take on what cards and why they'll be hit.

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PostSubject: Re: Ban List Discussion   Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:40 am

I definitely agree with alot you said and I hope and pray like Charge and Allure they balls up and ban shit that needs to be banned. Its about time they listen to there players because we have had 4-5 shitty formats now. This is PLants almost second year being top deck. Plants JUST got outlooked by Windups and Inzektors.
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PostSubject: Re: Ban List Discussion   Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:06 pm

since i agree with mugen im just going to throw out what SHOULD be done(yeah, i know, exodia will never be banned, but a girl can dream, cant she?)

banned:
head of exodia
tour guide
tour bus
1 day of peace
rescue rabbit
chain strike
ceacefire
sangan
brionac(hate this card so much)
trishula(hate this card so much)
evolsar dalkka
evolsar laggia

limited:
goyo guardian
rescue cat
giant trunade
inzektor hornet
wind-up hunter
master hyperion
grapha dragon god of darkworld
shien
shi-en(as if its another character >.>)
black rose dragon
solemn warning

semi-limited:
spirit reaper

off the list:
ojama trio
magic cyllinder


Last edited by TraceyMeow on Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Ban List Discussion   Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:17 pm

Exodia Willl Never ever be banned.
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PostSubject: Re: Ban List Discussion   Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:20 pm

BloodyTracey wrote:
since i agree with mugen im just going to throw out what SHOULD be done(yeah, i know, exodia will never be banned, but a girl can dream, cant she?)

banned:
head of exodia
tour guide
tour bus
1 day of peace
rescue rabbit
chain strike
ceacefire
sangan
brionac(hate this card so much)
trishula(hate this card so much)
evolsar dalkka


limited:
goyo guardian
rescue cat
giant trunade
inzektor hornet
wind-up hunter
master hyperion
grapha dragon god of darkworld
shien
shi-en(as if its another character >.>)
black rose dragon
solemn warning

semi-limited:
spirit reaper

off the list:
ojama trio
magic cyllinder
There are only 2 cards I agree with on here. the rest, no, just no.

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PostSubject: Re: Ban List Discussion   Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:36 pm

rescue rabbit limited
inzektor hornet limited
inzektor dragonfly semi limited
wind-up hunter limited
wind-up zenmaighty limited
chaos sorcerer semi-limited
elemental hero absolute zero limited
elemental hero shining limited
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PostSubject: Re: Ban List Discussion   Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:23 pm

I forgot E- Hero Electrum to 1 to stop the 2 card OTK.
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PostSubject: Re: Ban List Discussion   Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:10 pm

Grapha Lord Of Dark world.Limited to 1.
Just to dang broken..
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PostSubject: Re: Ban List Discussion   Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:05 pm

Ban sangan :]

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PostSubject: Re: Ban List Discussion   Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:20 pm

Quote :
Whilst it is true that most TCG only cards don't get hit, i'd like to
point you to Allure of Darkness and Charge of the light Brigade ->
both were hit when they were still TCG only as they both supported a
deck that was destroying the format at that time. I agree that Tour
Guide is unlikely to get hit anytime soon, but in the case of Rescue
Rabbit I'd argue that Konami will start henpecking the deck much like
they have done to plants. To do so Rabbit or the Evolzar XYZ's should be
hit - either Laggia to 1 or Rabbit to 2 is the most sensible way to
deal with the deck in a conservatory manner.

Of all TCG exclusives, only allure was limited before OCG release, and that was by an Emergency Banlist change. Charge waited until it hit OCG, LS dominated for the formats until it did. Also, they won't hit it if the cards are doing nothing in japan... when have they EVER hit a deck only for TCG. LS started topping OCG with charge, and that ended that.

Quote :
There is only one card that Quincy has mentioned
that quite frankly if it goes to 2, I think half the people who started
playing when it was unrestricted would just quit the game - and that
card is Advanced Ritual Art. This card is like Future Fusion it thins
the deck so effectively it deserves to be at 1. It would also single
handed catapult Herald of Perfection back into tier 1.5. With 2 you are
not just doubling the chance of opening with it, you are allowing a
player to send 2 mystical shine balls and 2 cloudian smoke balls to the
grave -> thining the deck by four. Not to mention with that graveyard
Kristya is now playable. The deck only needs to have Dark Factory of
Mass Production and you are essentially locked down, as herald can
negate 4 times and you cannot special summon.

There is a reason why happy herald never took off, and drawing ARA was the least of their problems. The deck sported so many normal monsters, and unlike Rabbit Dino, they have only 1 card to thin them from the deck. And even then, not all are sent, just some of them. Adding an extra ARA will allow for herald to join the control decks perhaps as tier 2, it will not propel to tier 1. The reason i did this was to possibly have a Ritual Heiroglyphic deck to come around... Very Happy


Thats just my two cents, and maybe foolish shouldn't be lowered, but hey. Also, Plant Synch is powerful, just too predictable at this point. It has explosive plays, but is extremely easy to play around if you know what you are doing.
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PostSubject: Re: Ban List Discussion   Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:29 am

Tour Guide is getting reprinted! Rejoice!
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PostSubject: Re: Ban List Discussion   Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:19 am

Here is your odds of pulling tour guide:

Assuming it is a rare. 1/55 + 1/220. That is your odds. That averages out to: 5/220 = 1/44 shot of getting it. So approximetely you get 1 out of 2 boxes. BUT: this is assuming that all of the rares are printed evenly for across all boxes, which we all know they will not be... GOOD LUCK!
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PostSubject: Re: Ban List Discussion   Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:16 am

grapha limited,bls banned,book of moon semi limited,rabbit limited,thats my prediction.i hope royal oppresion gets limited too.
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PostSubject: Re: Ban List Discussion   Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:16 am

My Prediction: Goyo back to 1,prem. burial back to 1,rabbit semi-lmit,sangan banned.

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PostSubject: Re: Ban List Discussion   Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:13 pm

Premature Burial will never come back - it's searchable by Hidden Armory as it's an equip, and with Brionac it can be used to spam the field with monsters in an almost infinite loop only constrained by your hand and life points.

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PostSubject: Re: Ban List Discussion   Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:37 pm

Its basically 1 out of 2 boxes. Reprint just makes the price go down. I kno ppl selling them for 50e @ Quin
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PostSubject: Re: Ban List Discussion   Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:02 pm

Ban Trap Dustshoot. We all forgot that. That card has been unfair for way to long.
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